I see where you’re coming from, especially with how you broke down the philosophies around tribes. I knew you meant that, but had to take the opportunity to go on my diatribe (pun intended).

I love the way you put it in the last paragraph: “the sliding scale of security vs. freedom.” It immediately sparked a post idea in my mind about how that sliding scale exists in our personal lives as well as at a high-level as we’re discussing it. Do we as individuals risk our security to attain more freedom and also, do we have less freedom in exchange for greater security; job, income, stability, so on.

You bring up great points. First, let me say that I agree that going back to the tribe seems like a social regression in many ways. I posted the above examples not because I’m advocating tribalism, but more because I find it interesting that in the 21st century we’re looking back at tribes with so much interest. What does this say about us?

The tribes that Seth Godin is describing are much more open it seems than the tribes of Robb, however they are the products of vastly different environments.

Robb is looking to tribes as more of a security measure in the event of a global depression where traditional security forces are no longer effective or relevant. Take a place like Mexico where some cities have become overrun by drug lords and police are either gone or paid off. A tribe, though close-minded in many ways, may be a good idea in this case simply for survival.

Godin’s tribes assume a decent security situation and are more like interest-groups than actual tribes like you’d find in Afghanistan, willing to kill for each other. He talks more about rallying people around a cause for the sake of making the world better or more informed, not necessarily for day-to-day survival.

If I had to summarize I’d put the three views this way:

- Pressfield’s tribes are the traditional eastern tribe that have existed and continue to exist in places like Iraq and Afghanistan. Maybe not ideal, but the way things are there. A necessity in an unstable, chaotic world?

- Robb’s are of the sort that would likely spring up in areas where security had deteriorated to a point where traditional defenders (police, military) could not be counted on.

- Godin’s tribes are more like the Livestrong campaign or an environmental group – good for spreading an idea, but not necessarily for keeping the kiddies safe.

Not that you don’t know this, but I think it’s important to look at each tribe in their own context. The thing that most interests me is not so much the merits of tribal living, but its connection to the security. Only under societies where the rule of law is upheld and people feel safe can there be openness to “…create bridges across the hubs to share information and ideas…” as you say.

I’d be interested to talk more about the sliding scale of security vs. freedom…it’s an interesting question that I haven’t thought much about, but it seems they counter each other like a teeter-totter. More freedom equals less security and visa versa.

Cementing ties through blood, developing rites of passage, engendering loyalty and respect for the community also breeds distrust of other tribes does it not? What about tribal warfare? Or culture becoming an exclusive religion?

We are at a war of ideologies and this is just the kind of stuff we’re fighting against, quite possibly from the mentality of being a superior tribe. Maybe that’s why we connect with this framework? Maybe this allows us to respect other tribes because we’re recognizing our status as a tribe itself?

Don’t get me wrong, I’m only playing devil’s advocate. It’s hard to understand just exactly what is going on unless you have a group of liaisons at work who can be at least a little impartial. I’ve seen this work in the kibbutzim in northern Israel. Each kibbutz represents its own philosophies, yet the premise is one of harmony. So I’m not against tribes wholeheartedly as they do provide a communal sense of belonging and avoid a lot of the socio-cultural problems an individualistic culture like America faces. I don’t want these tribes to lose their sense of outward communication and connectivity.

Seth Godin’s version of ideological tribes is exciting and mixed with Kevin Kelly’s 1,000 true fans, it builds an enormous community of individual hubs that can communicate. While still cliquey, I think (hope) the goal is to create bridges across the hubs to share information and ideas while at the same time recognizing perspective bias.